According to a statement issued by the fire brigade in Athens, three bank employees suffocated and died in a private bank torched alight on Stadiou Street in Athens.
The ambulance service (EKAV) is so far (16.41 GMT+2) not confirming the news.
More info as it comes.
51 Comments
it is confirmed!
I hear they are blaming the anarchists? Does anyone have much information on it? And i don’t mean a link to fecking reuters, where any anarchists involved in the protests? If so which groups? As well as the evidence which pointed to this group. Its all well enough to describe people wearing black hoodies and throwing molotovs as anarchists but they could have easily been commies, socialists or none ideological.
That’s right 3 dead because they were simply doing their job.
Apparently because some proponents of glorified violence thought that it was unjust for them to work on a day according to them they should have been striking.
These so called anarchist thought that it was in their right to protest the actions of these people by throwing rocks and molotovs into the building where these CIVILIANS were simply working.
The fire that ensued led to the asphyxiation of 3 young people who had no means to escape.
I would like to know whether the people who read this board believe that the actions of these protesters is moral.
For me it is obviously a criminal act.
BTW I live here in Athens so my sources are the local news.
@IQ – I don’t think anyone could justify this, my first instinct is to presume that this is either an accident or an instance of state provocation. It is hard to accept that anyone who is fighting for a better society could see any value in murdering innocent people.
IQ – apart from you being an odious troll, you understand nothing of the anarchists. If someone thought that this act was some how part of the politics of anarchists, to attack and kill workers then they are not anarchists. This is a tragedy not a murder, unlike the murder of the 15 year old boy in Athens, or the dozens of immigrants by your beloved police.
The disgusting thing is that the authorities in Greece will use this murder to further attack the rebellious movement
Watch out for instigation.
You are going to hear a lot of things….
IQ if you are a local journalist no one is really going to listen to anything you have to say. The fact that they were attacked because they did not go on strike has come straight from the mainstream media and them alone. The truth is actually the complete opposite. the bank showed no signs of being occupied because it was closed and locked down….check your sources before you make any more statements, why dont you mention about the beatings and property damage by the cops right now in the rest of Athens!
someone is Athens….
Breaking laws as an end in itself won’t break the Greek state. And if breaking this Capitalist state isn’t the point of the demonstrations then they reduce to a form of begging. As for the Law and Morality these concepts are best advocated by those with a complete ignorance of history. The BBC or equivalent organization should do nicely. But for simple Simon let me just observe that Law and Morality didn’t prevent World War 1 , World War 11 and won’t prevent World War 111. And peculiarly for the advocates of a historical nonsense they didn’t prevent the first financial crash in the twenties or the second. Still they are useful to the rich and powerful. As well as providing a good living to those in the middle class who expound this trash endlessly.
I just heard that the protesters broke the glass on the front door of this bank branch, which was not equipped with the double door security system of other banks, and then threw the molotovs into the building.
@AL I am aware that Anarchists in the true sense of the ideal are not violent. I am in a country though where under the banner of Anarchism certain groups that are proponents of violence are using this ideal as a backdrop for their actions. I am not against the rights of anyone to express their ideals in peaceful manners. I have lived in Greece for about 5 years, and I am from Canada. I can vouch that the police force in Greece is quite tame.
It is appropriate at this juncture to quote Gandhi [sorry for the cross-posting]:
“If a man fights with his sword single-handed against a horde of dacoits armed to the teeth, I should say he is fighting almost non-violently. Haven’t I said to our women that, if in defence of their honour they used their nails and teeth and even a dagger, I should regard their conduct nonviolent? She does know the distinction between himsa and ahimsa. She acts spontaneously.
Supposing a mouse in fighting a cat tried to resist the cat with his sharp teeth, would you call that mouse violent? In the same way, for the Poles to stand valiantly against the German hordes vastly superior in numbers, military equipment and strength, was almost non-violence. I should not mind repeating that statement over and over again. You must give its full value to the word ‘almost’.”
@BABEOUF Who gives a fuck about the Capitalist state? You trying to push your political agenda with this, and quoting history in the process is not going to change the fact that an unprovoked attack against innocent people happened here by persons at a political protest.
Well IQ ABOVE 60 those that will be destroyed by various Capitalist states in 2010 may. Lets see that will be 100 to 10,000 in Afghanistan. To join the 1,000,000 in Iraq. Perhaps if you can count above 60 you could add to the list. Or perhaps the deaths of ‘innocents’ brought about by Western states in spite of Morality and law doesn’t count. And if you don’t care about the Capitalist state why would you care about its productions. Its creation of mass poverty with attendant early deaths?
Translated by google translate and some modifications, so not totally correct, but useful:
About the 3 dead employees in the bank, a colleague of them says:
“I feel an obligation towards my unfairly lost colleagues to say these objective truths. I am sending this message to all media and all the informative sites. Anyone who has still conscience, publish it. The rest, let them continue play the game of government.
1) ● The fire department has not given written permission for the building, the agreement was under the table, like with practically all businesses and companies in Greece.
2) ● This building does not have fire protection, or has been checked or has facility that is spraying the roof, escape routes, fire nests. Only portable fire extinguishers, which of course can not cope with an extensive fire in a building built with long outdated safety standards.
3) ● No branch of the Bank does not have staff trained in dealing with fires. Not even the use of scarce extinguishers. The administration always invoke the cost and never does even basic moves to protect its staff.
4) ● Never has any building evacuation exercise taken place by workers of the bank or has been a seminar by firefighters to provide guidance for such situations. The only exercises that have been made in Mafrin Bank is about scenarios of terrorist actions and removal of big bosses out of bank offices.
5) ● This building had no special provision for fire, although the construction is very sensitive in these circumstances and despite being full of materials from top to bottom. Materials that can be on fire very easily, such as paper, plastics, cables and furniture. This building objectively is unsuitable to be used as a bank because of its construction.
6) ● No team of the security staff is aware of first aid kits and fire, although they are practically entrusted with oral command each time to protect the store. The bank employees are called to become firefighters and security guards according to the wishes of each k.Vgenopoulou.
7) ● The bank executives strictly forbid workers to leave, although workers had been calling them since early in the morning, and the executives imposed on workers to lock the doors and then kept confirming by phone that the building is locked. “Those who leave do not come to work tomorrow”, was a constant threat. They even shut down access to the internet to not let the workers communicate with the outside world.
9) ● The two security officers who work at this store for situations of robbery did not appear today, although officials had verbally promised to bring them there.
Finally gentlemen, do your self-criticism and stop pretending to walk around shocked. You are responsible for what happened today and if in a fully functioning state (like the ones you use occasionally on television as an example) you would already detained in these operations. My colleagues were intentionally killed today. ” Intentions of the bank and mr.Vgenopoulos who personally instructed that” anyone who does not work does not come to the office tomorrow.”
Interesting…all that verbiage but not one mention of how the fire started. Those people were murdered by vicious, psychopathic anarchists, not by bank execs, not by fire control systems. Would those same killers throw a firebomb into a building if they knew THEIR family was in there? Not likely. Where is their political justification then? Place responsibility where it is due.
IQ Above 60 – Are you Greek? I’m Greek and I must say this is a combination of factors that have added to this mess. There is really no social contract between the rich oligarchic class (which has enriched themselves off fat state contracts) and the rest of the working people who are stuck in an economy that is service based and a major market for German goods.
What is Greek history and who made it this way? Last time I checked the junta pushed the tourism economy to Greece in the late 60′s.
A country run by Foreign Monarchies, Pro-Monarchist governments, Nazi Collaborationists, Authoritarian Dictatorships – only a young democracy since 1974.
Nobody trusts the government and people don’t see a reason to pay taxes. Why haven’t the corporate class taken advantage of Greece’s lowest wage and highly educated people? Why consistently blame the unions?
Let’s face it – The Greek elite and their government lackeys have failed the country. When the going gets tough – they move their capital into London Real Estate markets.
Moreover, there is a horrible patronage system that started under the Royalist Party of the 50′s that has not dissapeared. There is no transparency in the government either – why wasn’t the use of Goldman Sachs reported in the media prior to Greece joining the EuroZone?
Personally, I think this is a travesty that innocent people were killed in the bank. Those responsible should be arrested and placed in prison.
This does not help the social movement – but only inflames the authoritarian power of the state and justifies a state of emergency. Study what happened in Italy during the event of the RED BRIGADES.
Anarchists are delusional and naive if they think they can take on the state alone without a mass grass roots uprising of refusal and also a plan on what to do outside of perpetuating macho riot porn.
However, I wouldn’t put this act past some police provocation or even of tragic carelessness. So far, the majority of the Greek public are accepting these measures of the Papandreou Admin, but support is dwindling fast. The usual suspects are protesting – but until the apolitical and petit-bourgeoise and actual workers break ranks with the unions and become militant – these are purely symbolic acts. Also, what we are hoping is that this general strike reaches the working/wage classes of Europe and there is a connected rebellion against the austerity measures. Is this happening?
i really dont want to answer to this, as i know that you would say exactly the same thing if we were talking about cars instead of humans, something that you probably did quite a few times during december 08. But fyi everybody knows that especially banks are shut down during marches and no one expects to find anyone inside. Also, if the door wasnt locked as ordered quite a few times by their bosses, these guys could have gotten away in a minute. But really, i dont want to apologize for anything to anybody, especially somebody who already has chosen side.
All this “verbiage” gives adequate information about the logical causes of the fire, unlike your statements. Context matters … except for Mr. Bourgeois.
Facts matter… Hand throws firebomb, bomb explodes, bank is on fire, people die. Pretty simple equation, no bomb…no fire.
further info on the rioting:
http://www.news.com.au/world/three-dead-after-fire-bomb-hits-bank-during-greek-riots/story-e6frfkyi-1225862790476
It was obviously an accident, a very sad one.
It was probably hard to tell if the building was occupied and hard to predict that a molotov cocktail would set the entire building on fire.
Unfortunatly this things happen and we can only learn from the mistakes but in no way this incident jeopardizes the all point of the protests as the government will try to make everyone think.
How do you *know* that a Molotov caused the fire? Fires have many causes. Police can also set fires.
UNIMPRESSED, They weren’t murdered by vicious, psychopathic anarchists. That is easy for you to say considering you aren’t in that situation. I am sure they did not mean to kill civilians. It’s a tragic accident.
Three people died after a fire bomb hit a bank in central Athens, the Greek fire brigade told CNN. The victims, two women and a man, were bank employees, they said.
Protesters were throwing bottles at police guarding the burned-out bank, shouting “torturers” and “liars” because they don’t believe people were killed inside. Riot police were moving in to push the crowd away, CNN’s Diana Magnay reported from the scene.
When asked about the casualties, a protester outside the bank expressed disbelief. “I’ll believe it when I see it,” he said.
Yes, UNIMPRESSED SQUARED, you are the only bastion of truth, everyone else is a liar.
Accident? How can the consequences of throwing a firebomb be called an accident? How did these diligent protestors confirm noone was in there? Thats akin to firing bullets into a crowd and saying you didn’t mean to shoot anyone.
Don’t be an idiot. I did not call you a liar.
Just an FYI
The fact is that there were 200,000 people peacefully protesting prior to the outbreaks of violence. These 200,000 had nothing to do with the dickheads.
The fire brigade there apparently told the idiots that threw the firebombs into the building that there were people in there. Their reply was that they didn’t care. Was their decision to throw the firebombs into the building at that point an accident?
Hmm. Let’s see. A Canadian expat living in Athens, trusting the local corporate press suggests that he still has a lot to learn about Greece. As for UNIMPRESSED, until he can provide hard, objective evidence that anarchist protesters were actually responsible for firebombing this bank branch, — not cops or agent provocateurs, his comments merely merit the due consideration give to any garden variety troll. As a historical footnote, similar case three decades ago originally placed the blame for the fire at Kappa-Marousi building on Panepistimiou street, leading to the death of several people inside, to anarchists, while its was later proved the fire was caused by tear gas fired by the police.
The violent outbreaks in fact have negated the efforts of the 200,000 peaceful protesters. The death of these 3 innocent people has actually led to a further unified parliament in their efforts to pass the major changes through tomorrow.
of course they hold a minute of silence for the dead in the bank, but not for radicals who get klled by cops or immigrants klled by n.azis!!! using people’s deaths as a P.R. move against the resistance is just shameful and disgusting.
There is no proof that they are in fact Anarchists. They were acting under the guise of the people that claim to be Anarchists in Greece. What is known is that they were wearing hoods and throwing rocks, and molotovs into the building.
The point here is not what they were but the fact that there are people on this discussion board defending these violent actions in order to push an agenda.
I don’t have a problem with your agenda, its the means. And Athens in 2010 isn’t Alabama in 1969, so don’t bother trying to quote Malcolm X.
You know RICHARD, you’re right. Burn and bomb Greece to the ground, Greeks kill Greeks, till there is nothing left…its all justified for the cause, keep making excuses. Then after the ecomony has ground to halt, and country goes belly up, Germany can walk in and ‘buy’ the country for 10 cents on the dollar. Sounds like a great way to combat the economic crisis…Let the “games” begin.
Have we not had enough of the chap with the low IQ?
“The point here is not what they were but the fact that there are people [defending] violent actions in order to push an agenda.”
Does this refer to Papandreou or Papakonstantinou?
The fact that a human mistake endes up in tragedy does not mean that the use of violence for political means has to be done away with. Violence is necessary and even more when we, the people at the bottom of society happen to suffer it 1 out of 1000 times every single day and in different degrees of intensity.
About the anarchists can be said many things, it may be true that the Greek ones should begin to move on towards something else and more constructive appart from rioting and street fighting. In any case I have been to Greece many times so far and I have seen anarchists involved when not organising themselves loads of actions and activities of many kinds. However it is always more comfortable and less problematic to grant the mainstraim media all the credibility and swallow absolutely every stereotipe and fabricated bullshit they say about people who doesnt enjoy the system approval, isnt it unimpressed?. Killing people in such an stupid manner does not form part of the anarchist politics at all but I am sure that if an anarchist did it first of all it was not on purpose and second, in the same way we can appeal to someones individual responsibility we should not forget that the people responsible for the present political situation are the politicians and bussinessman from Greece and from the rest of the world. Their violence is the beginning of any other violence. I cannot help to think that seating down in the streets hippie style is never enough, especially in a situation so heated up like the Greek one. It is easy to play moralistic judges comfortably seating down in front of the fucking PC screen. There is more world beyond Alabama… and by the way, Obama will not improve anything. Even old ladies laugh at such a ridiculuous statement.
Go Greek anarchists, go!!!
WE SHOULD BE FUCKING RIOTING EVERYWHERE FOR FUCK SAKE
I’m not sure how it comes that some dude from canaduh can live in Athens with it’s so many unemployed and suffering people. sumthing is wrong in that!
while they hacked (TODAY!) and sabotaged indymediaathens and indymediaUK the media is spreading it’s police reporter lies and so many “lefties” just believe it. that’s fuckin crazy. so the truth comes slowly out of it’s nice home in hades and what do ya think will happen now?
they gonna present us another robber in black!
back to canada: an illegal state on stolen land but that’s not enough for these european bastards: they’ve stolen everything, from coffee to corn to beans to gold to potatoes to pumpkins and then they steal culture like ice-hockey or the arts of the Haida and other tribes.
so, and then they “travel” the world and seem to understand nuthin!
didn’t you have any contact with greeks or how can it be that you spread these lies?
it reminds me of this greece-loving folks that love the land and the sea and the mountains that much that they wanna kick out all the greeks (except of some slaves for the cuisine these scumbags are too stupid for) because they love the land and hate it’s people. They will never understand how people will fight for their rights, they will never understand how it works with olives and feta and 24hrs double backen bread or “stealing” fish from the “turkish” coasts or even nuthin for days but still strong with mommy’s gun in the hand!
and they will never understand that if there is anyone of us responsible for this shocking death of these 2 men and a pregnant women that s/he will go to their families and tell’em to decide about: pl kill me if ya can!
They will never understand! and before the next pregnant woman dies or her baby -this time both in prison- lets get our shits together and free the athens six!
and pl post the addresses of the six/seven or addresses where to send our hearts!
ELEFTHERIA!
-i.i.
Actually UNIMPRESSED, the phrase is put up or shut up. If you’ve got concrete proof that anarchists did this, show us. Or maybe this social discord – with those pesky workers actually confronting the politicians, bankers and other parasites just leaves you pining away for an earlier, more financially profitable era in Greek history, say like under the Colonel’s Junta? Meanwhile continue to tune into BBC or CNN for all the truth that’s print to fit.
Being from Spain myself I would not drop the possibility of a fabricated mass media-police scenario. This stuff brings memories to me about the “Caso Scala” back in the late 70s and early 80s in Spain. Then it was also the intentional fire on a Theatre what was used to slander and deliver a heavy repressive blow to the by that time re-emerging Spanish Anarchist Movement.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caso_Scala
Why would any group during this time deliberately kill civilians? They obviously know it would hurt the credibility of their movement. They obviously know the spin doctors (media, politicians, etc) would use it to their advantage. At times like this, they would never hurt another worker by volition, even if they ARE assholes. It would HURT their agenda. So regardless of what you feel about the injustice of it, you must accept it wasn’t intentional if you consider yourself even a knotch above idiocy.
IQ-BLABLA;
“athens isn’t alabama 1969″ are ya kiddin? 5 years in greece and what did ya do or what shut ya eyes and ears? 2009: greek coast guard murders 36 “immigrants” stabbing their boat! 2010: two british special forces trainers and two US special forces together with one greek delivery guy for n.a.t.o. in Souda loot two times the synagogue of Chania/cretan museum and US-State Departement plus embedded press scum blame it to the “antisemitism of the greeks” check more about the strikes in the strawberryfields or the egypt fishermen strike and Katerina Goulioni and so many others. That’s not Alabama (or do ya mean Missisippi?)! But it’s a little bit much too much for a small country like Greece!
you’d better go and ask the Blackfeet for Visum!
HOMELAND SECURITY
fighting terrorism since 1492!
Everything in the media reports is true apart from the fact that they do not know the people who thru the molotov were anarchists, they didn’t know that the molotov caused the fire, they didn’t know if the anarchists tried to make the people escape in the bank.
The employer must have know that there was a possibility that the bank will be attacked – it happens on these big demonstrations.
Unlike the anarchists, the employer knew there was workers in the bank, and chose to take that risk. I would never believe that those people involved in a liberatory, anti-authoritarian movement would intentional put at risk workers lives, though I have seen many employers do this.
pl spread comment #14
end of thread?
Is it confirmed that the building of the Finance Ministry is on fire, or was burning earlier today?
Press reports one of the women was four months pregnant-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/05/greek-bailout-economic-crisis-deaths
Bank workers union response-
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/greek-bank-staff-strike-after-firebomb/story-e6frf7jx-1225862832147
From: http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20100505185138265
After the tragic death of the three workers made the round of Athens, new clashes started to spread in the Greek capital, with a large crowd gathered outside the burned bank when Marfin’s boss tried to visit the site. Clashes broke out between the crowd and police when the former attacked the bank magnate accusing him of forcing the dead workers to scab on a general strike and locking them in the building despite them demanding to evacuate it since 12:00.
In Parliament the Communist Party of Greece has accused the government for the deaths, claiming it was a result of agents provocateur fascist groups. The claims of the Communist Party are based on the fact that 50 fascists tried to enter the PAME demo bearing the flags of the union earlier in the morning. The fascists were spotted, chased and sought refuge behind riot police lines. Accusing the extreme-right as being behind the deaths, the Coalition of Radical Left has declared in Parliament that the government cannot pretend to be in grief for the loss of life, as it has been attacking human life by all means possible.
Obviously the idiot that threw the molotov into the bank did not do it with the intent of killing these people. But the point is that in trying to get a message across using the bravado of a molotov some innocent people died. It wasn’t Papakonstantinou or Papandreou that threw the molotov it was some idiot that thinks he is a revolutionary. The argument that it was the circumstances surrounding the situation that led to this idiot doing this is partially true. The circumstances being that idiotic statements like YETI: “Violence is necessary and even more when we, the people at the bottom of society happen to suffer it 1 out of 1000 times every single day and in different degrees of intensity.” influence people that are of a limited amount of intelligence and balls.
Who is at the bottom shithead (I mean you YETI)? The average Greek?
That said I am very grateful that I live in a democratic society where views like this are on the fringe, and are of little relevance.
IQ Above 60- Which democratic society is this? No democracy was ever established by sitting around and pondering the injustices of others. You are not in the position of these people therefore unable to empathize with them. Greece was the cradle of democracy once and fought many wars to sustain it. These people are fighting for their democracy since everyone has turned their backs and a blind eye. The proletariat of Greece have taken too much. I am not advocating anything because I am not in their position, I am simply agreeing that their reactions aren’t unwarranted. This is what happens when you back up an entire country into a corner: ACTS OF DESPERATION. If you had a family to feed and were in their position I doubt you’d be sitting on this forum, you’d be out there along with them. It’s easy to pass judgements when you are spectating. Keep them to yourself.
Holy fuck, talk about jumpin to conclusions.
The excessive tear gas that was used by Greek police could have been the cause. The canisters are known to be extremely hot and given the statement by the worker of the bank the building was a fucking hell hole, huge fire hazard.
I worry for all those is Exarchia as this is clearly being used to smash anarchists and youth into submission. I hope they do not lose their momentum and continue to resist the police, defend themselves and those in solidarity with them.
But honestly blame falls on the owner of the bank. This wouldnt have happened anywhere else because that building wouldnt have been allowed to be anything but abandoned.
Stop scapegoating the youth.
sorry, EVELYN: that’s wrong with the cradle of democracy, demo kratos was found on slavery!
IQ zero minus 60: don’t ya read what the employee of the bank writes? that the boss forbit the workers of the bank to participate in the strike and locked ‘em inside? that the ministry of finance got torched on the 4th floor and that lots of files regarding tax-fraud got destroyed?
we are the proletariat, idiot. fuck off to mars, we don want ya around. yer society is no democracy you don even have a homeland, ya’re just a stupid settler, u are a squatter stealing indian land.
at the bottom of ya “society” are people of alberta slowly killed by ya tar fields (so that ya can be part of the decadent 1st world overpopulation that flies round the planet), the homeless of eastside vancouver deported out of their homes for the olympic bullshit, aso. check out “mostlywater” about “ya” land!
and how do ya know that it wasn’t again some parastate action: locking the slaves inside, torch the fucked up building, get the money from insurance and blame it on the antiauthoritans. imagine Alexandros Grigoropoulos was shot by order to provoke the revolt and test the greek prols – btw his murderers will get free in one month!!!
that’s why the calabrian mafia got a greek name!
@EVELYN, DURR, LIMITED INTELLIGENCE
I feel very backed up into a corner by this situation placed upon me by the Greek Govt/EU/IMF. I have no alternative but to go throw a molotov at something. I need your home addresses, could you post them for me here? I assume you have insurance and the buildings are up to fire code, oh and make sure you aren’t there – I wouldn’t want anyone to get hurt!
pathetic argument iq.
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